228: Navigating Investments in a Booming Housing Market with Marck De Lautour

Big Mike Fund Podcast
Big Mike Fund Podcast
228: Navigating Investments in a Booming Housing Market with Marck De Lautour

Welcome to another episode! Today, it is our pleasure to welcome back our good friend, Marck De Lautour. Marck is a New Zealand-born real estate investor who has built a successful real estate company, buying and selling 150 to 200 homes per year and managing 600 houses. Marck’s expertise in the turnkey real estate model is unparalleled, attracting clients from around the world to buy U.S. properties hands-off.

In this episode, Marck provides valuable insights into the current housing market, driven by strong job growth and significant investments from major companies. Marck and Big Mike delve into the impact of sports on local economies, highlighting how thriving sports cultures can boost both tourism and job growth. The discussion also covers strategic pivots in Marck’s business, such as transitioning from turnkey single-family homes to new construction duplexes and four-plexes, and the benefits of these investments for maintaining low maintenance and higher tenant reliability.

Additionally, Marck discusses the challenges and opportunities in the current high-interest-rate environment, emphasizing the importance of long-term wealth accumulation through strategic real estate investments. He explains innovative strategies like rate buy-downs to make properties more appealing to investors despite the elevated cost of debt.

Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just starting, this episode is packed with valuable insights to help you navigate the complexities of real estate investing.


00:23 – Guest Intro: Marck De Lautour

01:37 – The booming housing market and major investments

03:54 – Strategic business pivots: From turnkey homes to new construction

07:44 – Benefits of new construction for investors

12:28 – Ground-up development projects and investor opportunities

16:11 – Rate buy-down strategies for investor appeal

19:18 – Market conditions and the impact of high interest rates

If you found this episode substantial and want to dig deeper into real estate, or maybe you want to discover better investment opportunities, be sure to check out www.tempofunding.com.


Website: https://sbdhousing.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marck-de-lautour/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marckdelautour/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMijokbrMsRanO0edXOQ1zQ

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MistakeFreeRealEstate

Full Transcript:
Welcome to The BigMikeFund Podcast, where you’ll learn about advanced wealth building strategies from real estate investing to creating massive ROI and secure retirement profits. So pour yourself a cup of coffee, grab a notepad, and lean in. Because Big Mike has got the mic, starting now.

Mike Zlotnik: Welcome to the BigMikeFund Podcast. I’m the Big Mike, Mike Zlotnik, and today it is my pleasure and privilege to welcome back my really good friend, Marck de Lautour. Hey, Mark.

Marck de Lautour: Hey Mike, how are you, mate?

Mike Zlotnik: Thanks for coming on the podcast. You’re back and great to have you back.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, always good to do a check in. So nice to have some time with you.

Mike Zlotnik: So what’s the latest and greatest in the world of Mark? What’s happening with personal life? Anything interesting in business? Just let’s start with kind of news and anything interesting going on.

Marck de Lautour: I guess personally we’re kind of having one of our children fly the roost here this year. So my oldest son Jackson is heading to Emporia State University on a baseball scholarship.

So excited for his next. And although that will be very hard to have him leave the house, he is only just 2 hours away. So yeah, we’re excited for him. He’s a fine young man and Yeah, we’re excited to just see him, you know, grow into what he’s excited to go challenge himself, not only on the baseball field, but also in the classroom.

Mike Zlotnik: That’s awesome to hear. I think sports are a great way to build character. And Getting a scholarship means he’s, he’s done well, so

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, I was talking to my daughter on the way to her volleyball practice and she’s getting ready because she’s not competitively athletic. She just enjoys having fun with her friends.

And she was talking about how Jackson is. She’s like, yeah, he’s all into baseball. And I think I explained to her. I said, you know, there’s, there’s less than there because when you’re fully dedicated to working out and baseball. Then you go to college and you’re fully dedicated to baseball and school and then you get done with that and that was a season on life.

You just find the next thing to be fully dedicated to. So I think to your point, there is a lot of translation from having a commitment and a diligence into your pursuit, whether that be athletics for now. But it obviously translates extremely well. In fact, some companies out there like Enterprise Rent A Car just hire student athletes because I’ve found that that those are the best people to come in and run their company.

Mike Zlotnik: I concur with you 100%. My girls have gone through figure skating and I, I, I know the drill. It’s if you, especially if you’re very, very competitive at a high level it’s remarkable. Obviously training you, you train your body to them, to the, to the nth level, but you also train your mind, the discipline, organizational skills, and that translates to.

Typically future success in folks, whatever they do. So that’s definitely great. Yeah. All right. Let’s go to the business. So what’s going on in Kansas city? Midwest, how things are holding up. We’re recording this second half of March, 2024. What’s happening with the housing market? Just curious.

What are you seeing? What are the opportunities? What’s new?

Marck de Lautour: So in Kansas City, extreme strong job growth and strong housing market. So, yeah, things are really, really strong here. We are seeing not only, you know what I see today that Google announced a 1 billion plant that’s going to come in in North Kansas City.

Panasonic just announced a 5 billion plant that they’re doing to build electric batteries. So they’re going to do 5, 000 employees over the next 10 years. I mean, lots of huge companies are coming in. There’s lots of warehousing kind of transportation logistics with us being so centrally located in the United States.

There’s certainly job growth and population growth coming to this, this vibrant and upgrowing city, you know, and obviously, although it may be Be not everyone’s most important thing. Having, you know, defending Super Bowl champions back to back actually delivers a lot of, you know, when Kansas City is so well publicized you know, across ESPN, you know, the, you know, people looking for great places when Kansas City is constantly mentioned.

It does impact not just tourism but also job growth. I mean, people love to come and be part of a winning team and a winning franchise. And there’s just a lot of energy in the city right now.

Mike Zlotnik: That’s a great point. I guess having three out of five years, it’s a rare, rare feat and puts Kansas City into the category of some of the greatest team in NFL history.

And they definitely, what do you call it? A dynasty a, a dynasty, a legacy. So, and yeah, it should have Impact on, on, on the business, definitely positive and interesting that you said Google is investing a billion dollars to build a, I assume, is it a data center? Is it just to hire a bunch of, yeah, yeah, it’s very powerful and Midwest.

It’s kind of interesting. These are steady markets. She planned. Yeah, it’s a, and, and the opportunities for steady, predictable growth jobs, housing, make a lot of sense. You have less volatility, more, more predictability kind of things. Don’t go up and down the same way they go in some other markets. So,

Marck de Lautour: yeah. And I think that translates when you have big, you know, fortune 500 companies that are investing you know, in satellite offices or secondary offices or ancillary offices. I think there’s a huge benefit to. Having a low cost of living option for some people that don’t necessarily value being in on the coast or in one of the bigger, you know top 10 markets of Phoenix, L.A. San Diego, New York Philly or whatever. Some people might want to just say, hey, look, I’m going to come where, you know, 500, 000 dollars can actually buy me a mansion rather than a 1 bedroom apartment. And so. You know, those are very real decisions that I think are being made in corporate America that are having a good impact on the housing market.

So, yeah, no, all positive signs where we’re pivoting in business. Mike is you know, it used to be where we were kind of known as a full turnkey provider of single family homes. The interesting thing is the ramp up in the marketplace has really caused us to be able to gain so much more for a housing On the open market that we’ve kind of pivoted away from doing investor sales on the full turnkey single family side of the equation.

And we’re just selling retail now and getting. You know, significantly more probably about 15 percent more return on our investments which obviously allows us to buy for more and and, you know, and offload those. So that obviously leaves a little bit of a void for our investor base and how we’ve kind of filled that void of them saying, Hey, we still want to be increasing our portfolio.

We have pivoted to new construction duplexes and four plexes over the last 2 years. And that’s really been very well received. I think our investors are appreciative of the low maintenance or low to no maintenance on their brand new construction as well as lower vacancy and a more prepared. I think when you and I are at CG recently, there was 1 of the hedge fund guys, Kevin Baldridge was on 1 of our zoom calls in there and he came in as a virtual keynote speaker and he spoke about.

One thing that they as a hedge fund look for in their future developments is the public’s or the future resident prospects propensity to pay and that kind of stuck with me. I’m like, that’s an interesting term, but they look at it as what is the likelihood of them getting paid rent every time on the 1st of the month.

And that’s something that we’ve seen a significant uptick on a lower, although delinquency is not a major problem for us. We have about a 2. 5 percent you know, delinquency rate which is not outrageous, but at the same time, we’ve seen a lower on the new construction stuff, which has been encouraging.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, I appreciate that clarification, how you pivoted new construction built around. I was actually listening to an episode about country leading builder they are Horton and how they are running their model and make long story short. What I hear is this continuous shortage of housing units for upcoming multiple years. We’re just not building enough,

Marck de Lautour: right? 

Mike Zlotnik: whether they are duplexes or triplexes or quads or single families is years of under supply and We the country in general just needs more housing units with a population growth Interestingly enough, a lot of undocumented folks have come over the border, they need a place to live too.

And right now, they’re occupying a lot most of them go to the sanctuary cities, but at the end of the day, it’s still increasing aggregate demand, and ultimately, Cities like Kansas City can be an opportunity for folks to get away from the big city living a lot, to a lot more affordable environment.

Affordability is a gigantic problem, especially if interest rates stay high. It’s another interesting discussion, and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Because you, basically, interest rates can stay at the elevated level, or they can come down. Of course, if they come down, they, they help affordability tremendously.

But if they don’t, at least in the short run it comes down to where can you buy or, or rent what’s affordable, right? At the end of the day, that’s, that’s a key. So again, you’re developing new built around, you’re selling this built around to investors, right? And your turnkey properties, you’re kind of selling them in retail, you’re getting better.

Are you doing anything else? Are you doing any, any interesting projects in the multifamily space? Are you doing any ground up? Cause I, I’ve heard that too. People are, are beginning to invest. Into some new construction. Are you looking at any discounted deals? Obviously the markets have gone through some correction with higher for longer rates Are you seeing anything interesting for sale with motivated sellers?

Marck de Lautour: We’re not in kansas city yet Nothing that seems like a fire sale. You know single family wise we there was a pivot period there where Because we’re still transacting around 150 deals a year from a single family perspective. So we do absolutely have a pulse on the market. Even though we’re not, our disposition method has just changed for clarity.

We’re not, you know, we’re still doing the same volume. We’re just not selling them to our investor base, but we do have a pulse on the market and our newly remodeled inventory. Was getting snapped up pretty nicely. But what we have noticed, Mike, is that there’s such a lack of inventory, even on the investor side of things that one of the ways we’ve pivoted also, or just kind of tweaked, and it could be something that gets turned on, turned off very easily, but we started just cleaning out our houses, putting them on market.

I guess the industry calls it a whole tail, not wholesaling. We do take the asset down and we buy it, but then we just clean it out and put it on market. And we aim to get the same return that we would get, even if we went through the remodel. And a lot of times we’re hitting it. Our threshold for a go, no go decision is actually 75 percent of our future revenue.

If we can get that without doing anything and going through the pain of remodel and finance and carrying costs and everything, if we can, you know, shorten our cash conversion cycle from 6 months down to 30 days, and we can do that and make 75 percent of projected future revenue, then we take down that deal.

And then then we sell the asset that that method and it’s been very popular because people are just starving even for like, you know, small mom and pop investors that are wanting to just do a couple of houses or one flip a year or something. There’s nothing on the market. And so we’re now feeding that side of the equation too.

If we get we get the opportunity. So that’s been interesting. The other pivot or, you know, new thing we’re doing is a full up ground development. We, we did buy 10 acres of land that we’re able to put. 40 units on we’re doing 20 duplexes. Just kind of, we’re building out 1 cul de sac off of the very main road.

And we’re doing that in partnership with a builder who had already owned the land. So we’re syndicating that deal out effectively. Just, you know, doing a small raise just a couple million dollars, but we’re, we’re raising that capital and then turning around and you know, yeah. Doing that development.

I think that’s a very much a rinse repeat model of you get investors to put a little bit up front to help us with the development and then they can turn around and actually have preferential. Access to buy those duplexes as they come off the pipeline on on the back end

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, that’s fascinating. And this is despite high interest rate environment. That’s the crazy part supply is so limited that despite Very softened demand demand is actually not that soft. And this is a very interesting set of circumstances where the things are coming along even though the fed has done what they You they have to do but the economy continues to come along.

Marck de Lautour: It’s kind of interesting that they paused, you know, they’ve been Tantalizingly saying yes, we’re going to do a cut a cut a cut, but you know kind of throwing it out there and then they’re Well, we’re gonna wait we’re gonna wait It sounds like they might do a cut in may but they may wait till july. I mean, you know, who knows?

Mike Zlotnik: Well, if they don’t have to they’re not. I mean, honestly, if stuff doesn’t break, they will not. It’s to the point where they’re more concerned about inflation risks than about things breaking, because if things are not breaking, they don’t have to respond. It’s kind of crazy how the whole environment has changed so fast, and, and by now, actually Fed, Fed themselves thought the economy would be broken, but it’s not.

It’s the private credit that’s, that’s risking the, the, the economy. It’s, it’s like investors like you, who get private credit from without going to the banks, you can raise capital from investors. So get the, get get this project to the finish line. So, how do you work with investors? You basically help, obviously you said they can participate in the Upside of the investment and then they get the opportunities to buy these these type of properties.

What are they traded? I’m, just curious if you build ground up give me an example What is completed product looks like if it’s a duplex or a quad and what does it ramp? At just basic basic math for what you’re building

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, pretty basic, Matt. We’re building duplexes that will sell somewhere in the 535, 000 range for a duplex that would generate rents on each side of the duplex just under 2, per a month so call it, you know, somewhere around, 3, 900 of or 3, 800 to 3, 900 of, of rents when you throw in some HOA fees and those kind of things.

So the income will be just under 4, 000 per month retailing at around 535 low taxes, you know, low insurance in the Midwest. And then we’re also doing a, a rate buydown to make it a little bit more appealing to our investor base. We plug that in right off the get go. So even though the sales of these particular development won’t happen for 18 to 24 months if in, we’ve plugged in there to do an interest rate buydown currently my investors, if they had to go out and, and get just a 30 year fixed mortgage, that’d be at 7.5 with 1.25 points.

That’s a rates effective today. But with just a simple 2 percent seller credit, we can get them all the way down to 6. 375 with just 1. 5 points. So easily buying the rate down to 5. 99. And this inflationary market is, is been appealing and something that, you know, supercharges the ROI and makes it, you know, back where we can actually be selling these things that are And that’s it.

6. 5 cap on new construction with some decent cash on cash returns. So it’s, it’s been appealing to our investor base. And quite frankly, Mike, I mean, our investors you know, have a lot of longevity. They, they plan ahead. So the, our investors are typically thinking, look, as long as we have some kind of positive cash flow, and we’re not having to put money in, you know, the, the end game is we want to buy a quality portfolio of performing assets that at the end of the day, we can look back on in 20 years and say, you know, that was, you know, That was a good asset then and it’s still a good asset today and it’s got professional management and it’s been that kind of legacy wealth generation play that’s the long term.

So I always kind of a liken it to a crock pot or a slow cooker rather than a microwave trying to get rich quick. We’re just getting wealthy slowly over time.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, I appreciate the clarification. So before it’s probably used to be sold as a cash flow play. Today, the cash flow is so small that given where the interest rates are and where the prices are, that it’s really mostly Leverage appreciation play.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, there were 4. I mean, I was talking about the 4 pillars of real estate. You know, the cash flow is 1 of them. The, the, the ability to scale with leverage is another the appreciation upside. And then lastly, the depreciation or tax benefits. So there’s always 4 pillars. I think probably mistakenly, we all got suckered into the whole cash flow 1 for so long when interest rates were down in the 3 to 4 percent range for investors.

And we just love, you know, we’re always looking at cash flow cash flow cash flow. And that’s fine because you can feel like you’re escaping the rat race if you get, you know, 300 a month of, you know, of cash flow from one asset and you get 10 assets and you feel like you’re at 3000 a month, but let’s be real at 3000 a month is still not it’s not life changing, you know, it’s not going to get you out of the rat race.

So you know, really what’s the big long term play is we work with wealthy high income investors that are trying to build something that is that long term wealth accumulation play. And I think that that’s what is the appealing thing is realizing that we’re now appealing to those 3 other, you know you know three of the other four pillars of real estate and cash flow will come eventually, either when rates drop or you do a cash out refi, but it’s just not that constant. That’s going to be, you know, a perceived benefit in the short term.

Mike Zlotnik: Well, it’s a market condition thing. So in this market, when the cost of debt is high. Even with buy downs, it’s very difficult to get a cash flow in. The thing you mentioned interestingly enough, again, I was listening to the podcast episode last night, and big builders.

So you basically are a small builder in this case versus some of the big builders. During the hot markets, they would offer folks upgrades. So they would offer folks some marble finishes or marble, marble bathroom, this and that. And those were the options. And again, most of those are not an investor product, nonetheless.

They, they provided incentives. In the form of taking the extra dollars and just upgrading them today these bigger builders doing the same thing They’re doing the buy downs as the primary incentive for folks to come in because affordability And and at the end of the day You can’t even get a mortgage if you don’t meet that service Coverage ratio or debt to income ratio.

So these buy downs absolutely critical just a quick question So what does it cost you to buy down? So you’re dropping the rate by how much and how much does it cost just just repeat that one more time? So it’s pretty clear.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah to us. We’re paying two percent of the sales price of the asset So around eleven thousand dollars in this instance

Mike Zlotnik: So you’re paying 2 percent of the sales price, which is I guess a portion of their mortgage. It’s in terms of mortgage points, probably what, around three, four points. Yeah,

Marck de Lautour: about 2. 6 points. Yep.

Mike Zlotnik: Oh, you’re paying it. It’s costing about six points, right? That that much relative to the value

Marck de Lautour: No, no relative to the mortgage. So two percent of the sales price is 2. 6 Points on that for their mortgage.

Mike Zlotnik: So you’re paying 2. 6 percent of the balance of the mortgage and the rate drops by how much

Marck de Lautour: from? 7. 5 down to 6. 375

Mike Zlotnik: That’s a tremendous buy you’re dropping over 100 basis points. You’re only costing you 2. 6 points Points that that’s a ridiculous the good old rule used to be four points per one percent drop This is all and and if you can do today 2.

6 to to to buy down more than one percent That’s it. That’s a pretty good deal.

Marck de Lautour: Yes

Mike Zlotnik: my book.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah No, it’s been it’s been popular and I think appreciated for sure. I mean people it’s only like that it used to be Never talked about and to your point now, buyers are coming in very educated saying, hey, do you have an interest rate buy down program?

What does that look like? I mean, it’s come to be fairly well expected and it’s, you know, just kind of 1 of those things instead of using real estate agents necessarily to go out and. And sell our product for us. We’re effectively saying, Hey, we’ll take that same amount. We’d be paying a realtor. Let’s just buy down the investors, right.

And just, you know, we have a obviously a healthy demand from our investor base and we’re just rewarding them by being loyal customers with an interest rate buy down.

Mike Zlotnik: You know, what is this is telling me? And I’m, I’m obviously speculating, but I, the way I read this data, where the price to buy is relatively cheap.

In terms of points you’re paying per reduction or an interest rate. It’s telling me that the general market, all these lenders expect the rates to fall.

Marck de Lautour: Yes.

Mike Zlotnik: So if they expect the rates to fall, then of course, three, five opportunities open and all the points they’ve collected, they’re happy with that as the market rates fall many investors will be incentivized.

So it’s out of our insurance policy. So in case the rates don’t fall folks. And this is 30 year fixed, I assume, right? Yes, it is.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, we’re talking 30 year fixed.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, it’s a one directional insurance. These coins, and again, you’re providing them in the form of incentive, so it’s not really costing them money, but it’s costing you a little bit of incentive, but it’s providing them a state of mind that they can’t go higher, they can only go lower from there.

Yeah, so let’s continue the conversation. Where do you see things are going sort of later part of this year? Because, of course, we don’t know what Fed is going to do. From the opportunities perspective, markets haven’t really corrected. So you’re not seeing softness in the markets. And and this is true both residential and forms of commercial multifamily storage.

It feels like that there’s some softness. In in commercial properties, but it’s not the properties themselves It’s the sponsors who want the financial pressure who borrow it with variable rate debt Not once you borrow once you have a fixed rate debt You don’t have pressure if you can if you can pay the mortgage keep the lights on you’re not forced to do anything So are you seeing any any distress situations or it’s just it’s kind of chugging along.

It’s almost Counterintuitive fed push rates up, but the distress is not showing up the way you would expect it to show up

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, I think that my take on it is that there’s just it’s a it’s a long cycle. You know, the cycle that we expect to happen very quickly. You know, we talk about it daily, but it probably happens yearly.

And I think we’re just, you know, waiting for this inevitable. You know, distressed assets, whether that be office or multifamily C class or whatever, whatever might. Might come along and to your point, potentially just mostly multifamily with bad operators, but there’s going to be something with the interest rate adjustments that are going to be happening in 2024 and 2025.

That’ll force the market into distress. Just not seeing it yet. So, I mean, certainly expect it later on in the year, Michael, but I’m, I’m not seeing it yet. So

Mike Zlotnik: understood. You’re seeing any office conversions possibilities to is it 1 of the. You know, one of the deep discount asset classes is office, but the conversions are difficult and I’m not sure if you’ve ever even looked at this.

I’ve spoken with a few folks. It’s a, not an easy process, but in theory, if you get the right building at the deep enough discount in theory, is this. Is this even worth the discussion? Because if you can get to fresh land, and you can build ground up, and a building Is building more economical than trying to convert?

I’m just curious if you’ve ever looked into this, and maybe this is not your cup of tea. But I’ve heard that idea being sort of circulated, but the conversions are hard depending on the type of building.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, certainly not a market expert and not something that I’m looking to do. However, obviously I’m curious and I, I read up on what’s happening in the marketplace.

1 of my friends is trying to do a, a new pickleball community and he looked at converting 1 of the big box stores into a facility, but decided in the end to build ground up. So, to your point, I think it’s still a risk to throw all that money into an asset that’s still aged versus getting exactly what you want and new construction.

It’s kind of what we’re seeing. Honestly, in the single family side, we’re seeing a lot of benefit from just, you know, I see the benefit now of, like, building brand new, having everything done the right way your way, you can control it right from the get go, as opposed to having to go into something that was built, you know, 50 years ago and trying to formulate out how that’s going to translate to today’s, you know, end user.

Mike Zlotnik: Well, back to the pickleball. We see, we had CG, right? We’ve gone to play pickleball. We see an old ball converting whatever that, that, that was into pickleball courts. And I guess they looked okay. I mean, they were not new construction, terribly exciting, but I guess the conversion process wasn’t too difficult.

Marck de Lautour: It wasn’t, but it’s clearly not. Like if you go back and compare that to other pickleball facilities, Mike, this one will get left in the dust. So maybe they’re first to market, but. The poles that were right by the courts, they had no, the walls were far too close together. It was really kind of, it was forced into there.

And I think that as you get a facility, if you go look at like the new pickable facilities that are getting done, it’s a good example of like, what luxury looks like. And they’re going to go get memberships to those pickable facilities. And that facility will not be there in 10 years time. It’s just, there’s no longevity there.

Mike Zlotnik: Interesting. Yeah, that’s a brilliant observation. These old assets might not be as easily repurposed. Into something that has a longevity,

Marck de Lautour: especially when you’re in Kansas City, where we have an abundance of land, very cheap land and very plentiful land in the heart of the city. Clearly, New York City, if they want a pickleball facility, I have to convert an old building or do something right. But or in a big, big major metro, but Kansas City, although we’re clearly a big major metro, we’re still we’re not, we’re not bound or constrained in any way. So these new facilities are popping up all over the place.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah. That’s a great observation. Some of these conversion projects make sense in bigger cities where the land is expensive and difficult to get while in Midwest, it doesn’t make sense to make those investments. So Mark, I appreciate your wisdom.

Thank you for coming on the podcast. What’s the best way to folks to reach out again, to talk to you again, if they are investors that are looking into double access to buy or, or, or just want to chat with you and learning.

Marck de Lautour: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah, the company is S. B. D. housing. And so S. B. D.

housing dot com is our domain and they can just reach out to us through there. I think there’s a a few buttons on there that they can either start following me on the socials or reach out to us for more information. So happy to have discussions as needed.

Mike Zlotnik: Thank you, Mark. Appreciate that. And Kansas City Legacy, we may continue. They’re still a great team, and it’s, it’s exciting to see them. It’s really, you know, used to be the GOAT used to be Tom Brady. And just his final thoughts, and he’s kind of the old GOAT. He’s, he’s done. He’s gone. And Mahomes is the new goat. He’s the new young goat. He’s still got, he’s still got it and he still excites people and it’s kind of interesting. So we’ll see what happens.

Marck de Lautour: They were big shoes to fill, but no, he’s certainly rising into them. And the cool thing about that team is that it truly is a great team aspect. We utilize the analogies from there frequently about how he’s a, and smart leader. He’s very, if you watch him, he never throws any of his teammates under the bus.

And they’ve done well to really cultivate a winning culture at the chiefs. And it’s been been fun to watch. We certainly try and emulate that in our office.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, it’s I, I concur. These isn’t he buying some ownership in some sports team? He’s, he or he’s bought some, it’s kind of a, I think he’s gonna, it’s gonna feel like the next Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, where he’s going to be a great athlete plus become an owner, a part owner of some of these great

Marck de Lautour: Yeah, two now, so he has Ownership minority ownership in the Kansas City Royals baseball team and he and his wife are owners of the new The women’s soccer franchise here called the Kansas City current here in Kansas City.

Mike Zlotnik: Yeah, interesting, fascinating. So, Good luck to him and good luck to the chiefs. Thank you again

Marck de Lautour: Thank you.


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